alan scherer, (since when is voicing an opinion reason to be jailed?)

Simple answer: when you are breaking the law. Here in Boston, the Wall Street protest crowd decided to trash an area where they were specifically told not to congregate. But like most folks with nothing to do and no particular place to go, they did it anyway and were subsequently arrested for trespassing.

The republicans do not set the tone for the debates the moderating group holding the debate does. That is why there was no questions on the Iranian plan to assasitnate the Saudi ambassador on American soil which was the biggest story of the day.

I was there, and there were 3 boos and what difference does it make? Who stood up for the gay veteran? And then what did I expect the candidates to say, with hands on hips, "Now, be nice to the gay soldier."

Cycoblitz, You were there and didn't tell those buffoons to shut up? You don't support our troops? You didn't tell those American haters to leave the country? Aren't you ashamed of yourself for being a coward while this hero who was risking his life for you was booed?

I did, we did, but without the mics it just sounded muffled. See, MM, I'm on your side if there is a side. If you really want to know what goes on behind the scenes, you have to sneak into the enemy's camp. So please be careful whom you criticize as a coward. See you at the march.

You have to forgive mm for it appears that mm is one who only hears what mm wants and makes judgement accordingly.

You have to ask why the GOP is passing voter suppression laws making it extremely difficult for a certain segment of Americans to vote. Believe me it is a BIG deal getting and paying for the documentation now being required. And for what? Voter fraud is not a problem. The target now is the most vulnerable but if they succeed, unless you are the ruling, wealthy class, history shows you WILL be next. Doesn't sound like a trait of a free society but fits very well into the fascist model. "...a recent study by the Brennan Center for Justice found that only 44 one-millionths of one percent of votes are cast by people who commit voter fraud. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=131a16f934e122d2&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9eca80a038%26view%3Datt%26th%3D131a16f934e122d2%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQXhi3iC4c3VTnZguGXvpv3HAjmDA

I agree you need a photo ID, but these states that recently have required it haven't taken in consideration the city dwellers who don't own a car, and thus won't have a drivers license or retired people who no longer drive. You don't enact this type of law 16 months before an election! This is blatent voter suppression.

Who lives with no identification in this country? This should not be a deterrent to anyone.

DSR is blowing smoke with unfounded allegations but forgets to mention the black panter in Pennsylvania with the night stick at the voteing place or that there is a video of the same man talking about killing crackers and for those who don't know that is white people. The GOP teamed up with president Johnson and passed the civil rights act including the voting act to stop the discrimination of the democrats in the south against African Americans to keep them from voting. The demcrats in NY ran a person under the tea party mantra to split the republican vote in order to elect their man in early spring of this year for a vacated republican seat. The voter ID is not a voter suppression law and the GOP was instsrumental in passing early voting law so more people have the opportunity ot vote.

L. Schmidt - Didn't mention the Black Panther incident because I trusted that the Bush Administration knew what it was doing when it dismissed the charges and the fact that it was only revisited once Obama took office. http://blog.prospect.org/blog/adam_serwer/2010/07/when_was_the_new_black_panther_content.html I would be interested to hear your opinion on voter fraud once you have read the Brennan Reports and can give evidence to disprove their research. The Brennan report didn't offer any frightening "what if" scenarios but did offer ways we could make our voting system more up to date and insure that all American citizens can exercise their right to vote. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=131a16f934e122d2&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D9eca80a038%26view%3Datt%26th%3D131a16f934e122d2%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQXhi3iC4c3VTnZguGXvpv3HAjmDA AND http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id

Zeke Zellers - WOW! What an insightful and intellectual superior reply.

DSR,
You mistate the facts on the article that you note. Bush "downgraded" the charges against the black panthers to a civil misdemeanor. It was Obama and Holder that "dismissed" the civil charges against the black panthers. Barry and Eric decided to let these thugs go without any penalty whatsoever, even a simple misdemeanor. They could have given them a slap on the wrist and send a luke warm message that violating voters rights at the ballot box is unlawful, but they choose to let it go.

It's not an absolute right...you can't yell fire in a crowded hall. But more to the point in question, since when do democrats ever exhibit courteous behavior as a group? Look at the union liberal thugs who threatened regular folks in the Wisconsin State House with bodily harm, or the Wall Street protest crowd trashing business establishments where they camped out. It is estimated that in NYC it will cost up to $2 million dollars to clean up after these cretans. Why, as a taxpayer, should I have to pay to clean up their mess?

For liberals to just be rudely shouting out of order at a public event is actually tame by their usual tactics.

@Platinum - I'm a businessman. I'm a capitalist. You are only stating one side of the argument. What about the billions that taxpayers spend in socializing the off-balance sheet expenses that businesses create? Healthcare expenses related to cancer and asthma due to coal-fired utility plants. Superfund sites because businesses dumped chemicals. Cancer-causing pesticides on our foods because of government-sponsored agribusiness. Where is your outrage for the billions that we are spending there?

Todd,
Businesses pay for cleaning up the superfund sites through costly fines levied by the government, not my taxes. Healthcare expenses related to work sites like coal mining...well, I wouldn't work in those environments knowing the risks, but other people do and that is their choice. And in our free market society, our health care system takes care of health issues from those work sites and not my taxes with the exception of older folks on medicare. Pesticides on our foods? Then eat whole food products and naturally raised farm beef and chicken and we won't have that problem. Again, it comes down to choice. You see, I'm a business owner and a capitalist too.

Platinumputter, I agree with some of what you say, but what we have isn't even close to a free market. A free market would look more like this: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2306769/posts

Notice not just the prices on that sheet, but the fact that they're advertising thier rates. Today, everything's just billed the max. Inflation doesn't even begin to account for the difference. Churches and other organizations used to run free, charitable clinics. They've long since been driven off by insane prices, ponderous regulations, and enormous liability.

Todd's right that government gives huge handouts to agribusiness -- not to mention well connected banks, the military industrial complex, etc. In reality, corporate welfarism dwarfs that of welfare for the poor. He's also right that corporations who pollute are usually not held liable for their actions. Look at BP. They got basically a slap on the wrist.

I support liberty, and free markets, but that's not at all what we have now.

We are a nation of laws--------I know lefties think laws are there to be broken, but they are not. Freedom of speech is an American right, but when you break a law excerising that right, you should be sent straight to jail. Tramping on my rights are ok with you?,You think you can come to my house and run around on my yard and litter it and walk away? Is that your idea of a right?

Zeke, we are not "a nation of laws", we are human beings. It's not inherently wrong to break immoral laws -- I'm glad those on the underground railroad broke the federal laws against helping escaped slaves, and I'm glad Rosa Parks broke the local bus laws.

You're right, however, when you say that trampling on rights is not ok. It'd be wrong to trespass or litter on your property because it's your property -- but it'd still be wrong if a majority of politicians decided to declare it ok.

I'm not a fan of the way this man chose to express himself either, but I wanted to address the general principles you brought up.

DSR,
It's really not much of a stretch to believe that one day democrats will allow absentee ballots to be mailed from Mexico. To wit, llegal aliens already have the method to vote through state sponsored voter registration fraud. Illegals simply have to show up with a driver's license, which they can get in any state, and that document gives them the means to vote, no questions asked. Who would have believed that years ago? Hmmm, I wonder which party they're voting for?

Paul, BP with a slap on the wrist? Are you kidding? Total fines to be levied against BP for the gulf oil spill are estimated to be around 21 billion dollars!!!! That doesn't sound like a slap on the wrist to me. What you are referring to is a "pure" free market. We can't have that in a global economy. But many of the problems that you cite are caused by big government and it's getting bigger under Obama each and every day. If you can get the government to stop manipulating corporate tax rates, stop subsidizing businesses like Solyndra as well as agriculural firms and stop buying high priced weapons just because they are made in Harry Reid's district, then that would be a start.

Platinumputter, BP should have been held fully liable for all damages -- not given an arbitrary fine by politicians. This is a fundamental mistake in how we deal with environmental issues. Instead of direct accountability for damaging other people's property, we have arbitrary limits and infinite regulatory hoops imposed by the EPA, which are usually manipulated by major corporations in order to block competitors.

Of course we can have freedom in a global economy. It's not like freedom suddenly ceases to work because larger numbers or distances are involved.

I agree with your opposition to the behaviors you list, and oppose the vast majority of what Obama has been doing. We have to recognize, though, that the behaviors of Republican politicians in Washington have been nearly identical.

Can you direct me to the Chicago voter fraud documentation?

DSR,
You probably don't think that I can come up with that documentation, do you?

Well, just google Chicago Voter Fraud and you'll come up with countless examples of democratic voter fraud in Chicago alone. I stopped counting after forty, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were over a hundred or so.

I googled it before I asked you for documentation. All I found was info on false names on petitions but not widespread voter fraud in actual elections. I thought you might have links to articles about election voter fraud.

Perhaps I can help you with that. Here is one of the many links that you can't seem to find but which came up on Google Page One and so I found it quite easily: http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2007/08/more-vote-fraud-convictions-in-east.html

Paul,
I agree that up to this point in time, both parties are responsible for the mess that we're in. But not equally so. This current mess we are in is squarely in the lap of the democrats who have had majorities in both the house, the senate and for two years under Obama in both institutions at the same time. And that is what gives rise to the Tea Party Movement. Regular folks who work for a living fed up with big government and high taxes and political shenanigans.

Let's not forget, though, that the republicans also had complete control for a time under Bush, and both foreign and domestic spending continued to skyrocket.

I do work for a living and I am fed up with big government, high taxes and political shenanigans. It seemed like at the beginning, more tea party activists were interested in non-interventionism overseas, and civil liberties at home (opposed the TSA/DHS, the war on drugs, etc). I felt more in-line with the "tea party" movement then, when it was more pro-liberty across the board ... now it sometimes seems like a republican, or Sara Palin fan club. I guess that's just my perspective on it.

You're factually correct about republicans having a majority under Bush, but misleading as well. Republicans never had super majorities in both houses like Obama recently had. Republicans had very narrow majorities and had to compromise on every issue and bill with the democrat minority if they wanted to pass legislation. Barry O owned both the senate and the house with super majorities and the democrats could have passed just about any piece of legislation that they wanted. The only thing that stood in their greedy, mischievous way was the american public and relection bids. And so every little liberal wish list didn't get done with the exception of ObamaCare which was rammed down our throats. Today, we have Barry running around the country complaining about a do nothing congress and liberal talking heads complaining about the Tea Party republicans but it's all a game. Only this time, the american public has caught onto the game which explains his miserable poll numbers and why liberals don't even want to call themselves liberals anymore. Up here in liberal Massachusetts, liberal candidates running for local office don't even put the term Democrat on their yard signs anymore. Just their name and picture. Used to be that these same yard signs proudly said Democrat in blue. But not anymore. They're embarrassed by their own party.

Platinumputter, what bothers me is not what the republicans didn't do, but what they did do. With the full support of most congressional republicans, Bush massively increased government spending both internationally and domestically, deficits skyrocketed, the anti-liberty DHS and TSA were created, the patriot act passed, the federal government stomped on local education (no child left behind), created massive new prescription drug entitlements, started numerous wars, etc. The federal government under Bush was the largest and most intrusive in history to that point.

I agree with your opposition to Obama. He is anti-liberty. Just please don't pretend that washington Republicans have been pro-liberty. This is not an R vs D problem. It's more like an us vs. washington politicians/bureaucracies/lobbyists/corporatists problem.

Someone who knows the political scene there once told me he could count on one hand the number of washington politicians that are honest -- who actually have principles more important to them than their own self-glorification, wealth, and power. Of those, half don't believe in liberty anyway - they're sincere socialists. I agree with his assessment.

And I didn't even mention the bailouts ...

Paul,
In hindsight, I think most conservatives would agree that Bush turned out not to be the conservative that we thought he'd be when we elected him. But he also gave in to the democrats free spending ways, in part I believe, to get along with them thinking that in turn they would reciprocate and get some of his agenda passed. Bush really did try to get along with the democrats while he was in office and look where it got him...wingnuts on the left calling him all sorts of names and a bulls eye on the back of his head from the liberal media.

Paul,
One more thing...I do agree with your assessemnt that most politicians are looking out for themselves. But we have to deal with reality when it comes to politics and not nirvarna. And so in comparing the two parties and assessing which one will be the lesser of two evils if we look through your political prism, then I choose the republican party every time.

What you fail to note, and quite conveniently so, is that the european countries who practice socialist policies are going bankrupt. Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland, Belgium and France to name a few. In each of these countries, the free ride is going to come to an abrupt end because of their socialist policies and deficit spending. And then life is going to get very ugly over there. But if you liked it so much over there, why are you here? My feeling is, if we can just get all the socialists/communists who hate America to leave for what you believe are political utopias overseas, then America would be a better place again.

I am spiritual and my religion has taught me not to judge others..
Why is it that only republicans are religious and they are so judgemental.
Did Jesus love everyone
that is what I believe.
It is not in my place to judge you.
President Obama certainly cannot be right about everything.
Who Is
And he certainly cannot be wrong about everything.

Abey, it's not about R vs. D. If you look at actual policies, Obama's basically Bush's third term anyway. The politicians will fill your ears with nice sounding lies, but in the end virtually all of them promote a giant, growing government trying to run the world, your personal life, and your pocketbook. They want more power for themselves.

One person boos and you left wing wackos go crazy. One left wing wacko calls some one an s.o.b and you appplaud. You people are sick and need locked up. So much for obamas "lets be senseble and kind to each other and lets stop this name calling" ----------It's all crap.

Can you name a couple of "solutions" that Barry O has proposed? Or Harry Reid? Or that venerable fountain of wisdom, Nancy Pelosi?

Zeke... We know there are homophobes out thee - who gladly boo anyone they find offensive. As citizens they have a right to their hate - the real question concerns the candidates and how they handle questions like that and the people who respond stupidly.

Well, he certainly wasn't at the debate to weigh in on which republican candidate he should cast his ballot for -:)

Oh, Zeke. So much fodder for mockery. You cite as your evidence an organization that still promotes abstinence education (proven ineffective) and says that same-sex marriage threatens religious freedom (blatantly false). The hits keep on coming!

You nailed it Zeke, with your comment about causing no damage and not hurting anyone. That's the first and most important criteria.

I think that my comment was less clear than it could have been -- I wasn't trying to defend this guy at the debates. I just wanted to address some of the general principles that were brought up. What this man did was wrong because it violated property rights, not because it was illegal, per-se.

Your bigoted comment aside, Joe. Yes. Abstinence education is completely ineffective. Why else do you think that states which rely on it have the highest teenage preganancy rates and HPV infections and other HETEROSEXUALLY transmitted STD's.

Put down the Bible and investigate some cold hard facts. To quote Michelle Bachmann "Facts are stubborn things." --it's just ironic that she was lying when she said that.

Bless your heart. The whole point is that teenagers (and adults) won't do it. And no amout of preaching to them that sex is evil and their bodies are filthy shameful things will make them do it. But you just keep living in your world of delusions, don't let facts change you.

...perhaps they became nasty when they met you. Maybe you tried to tell them about your brilliant plan to "cure" HIV. You are an ignoramous.

You seem to have an infantile obsession with body parts. Most well adjusted adults grew out of that in the 6th grade.

If they do "hate who they are" it couldn't possibly be due to you calling them immoral and having crackpot christian "therapists" attempting to "cure" them by sticking electric needles into their fingers and torturing the gay out of them.

"From time to time??" Fox News built a broadcasting studio in her HOUSE so that she could annoy us constantly without even having to step outside. She cares only for celebrity and money. She quit her elected post when it stood in the way of her earning potential and says that being the president would "shackle" her. And she constantly talks about the "real" America, implying that anyone who disagrees with her is somehow un-American.

Mike Hunt - Thank you for your sane rational replies. Calling "uncle" and going to leave the site now as the crazy talk is getting too much. First time I commented on this site and didn't have any idea I would be reading "Oh wait let's tell our children that it's ok to screw each other in the rectum!," Debating ideas is one thing, resorting to name calling, vulgar descriptions and irrationally vomited talking points is another.

A little woman with all that power and not even an elected offical. If she can control that much, imagine what she could control if she were President. I think the liberals are afraid. As well they should be, look at who they elected the last time.

The reason the entire country hates Palin is because she's overexposed, has long run out her 15 minutes, and is clearly clearly, CLEARLY a camera loving media wh*re. She's like the Kardashians. Nobody likes them, either, for the same reason. She's just trying to make a fortune. Nothing more.

Oh, I didn't leave. I just chose not to continue debating with a person who is clearly mentally challenged. Good luck with your therapy.

You seem to have made a grand assumption that I belong to a specific demographic group when I have told you nothing about myself. This amuses me.

"I have nothing against gay people I have a problem with schools teaching that is OK!"

Keep typing, moron. Keep digging your hole deeper. If you had 1 brain cell left, it probably died of lonliness.

An intelligent debate requires 2 intelligent people. You have proven yourself unqualified. Keep typing and show the nice people how insane you are.

Watch with amazement as JOE stumbles into the strange and confusing world of adult human sexuality! This is a place that he has no business entering, unequipped as he is to deal with ambiguity or free thought, and yet he cannot stay away.

Joe, you are positively OBSESSED with homosexuality. I've counted approximately 37,987,623 posts from you about gays.

there's that assumption again. once a thought gets wedged in your pitiful little brain, it's really hard to get it out again, isn't it?

Abey, I'm conflicted. Part of me pities your tormented mind. Part of me wishes you had a reality TV show.